This week, I finally did something I have been wanting to do for a long time: I put “atheist” on my Facebook profile. It was less of a dramatic coming-out than I had anticipated; to see it, you would have to go to my profile and scroll through my “About” section and find it listed under “religious views”. I could have made it into a post that will show up in people’s News Feeds, but I didn’t find that necessary. I did, however, follow a number of atheist pages, and maybe one day I’ll share some of their posts for all my friends to see.
Before I did this, I went through and purged some of the more extreme conservatives from my feed. After I was done, I was glad that I might finally be free from seeing another person sharing blog posts from Matt Walsh in my news feed. My former college classmates or church members always shared some really peculiar things, but Matt Walsh’s content was always the worst. After my first review of his writing two years ago, I decided to return to the conservative political commentator’s blog to see what he’s been up to.
The first post that caught my eye on Walsh’s blog was entitled “WALSH: The Left Is Outraged Because Mike Pence’s Wife Got A Job At A Christian School“. (Note: I leave the link in so that you may follow along if you want and so that I don’t take him out of context, but consider that if you click, you are giving him a view, so if you don’t want to boost Matt Walsh’s stats, you might just consider staying here and reading my summary instead.) In the post, Walsh explains the recent headline, in which Mike Pence’s wife Karen got a job as a part-time art teacher at a Christian school. The controversy comes from the fact that the Christian school doesn’t admit openly gay students.
Before I go on, I feel that I must clarify: Matt Walsh might seem, for the most part, a pretty logical guy. The problem I see is that he doesn’t consider the morality of his “logical” beliefs. In the post on Karen Pence, he logically explains that we shouldn’t be surprised to see a Christian woman working at a Christian school with Christian principles. In theory, this is fine. But in essence, his argument is that what “The” (evil) “Left” has always wanted is for each person to keep his or her religion to him or herself, and now we are, in a way, persecuting Karen Pence and her Christian school because we’re trying to stop her from living her life and practicing her beliefs. In his words,
“But in the case of Karen Pence and her new employer, they are doing exactly what the Left demanded. This school is merely trying to operate by biblical principles within its own walls and on its own property. It is a Christian school simply being a Christian school. It isn’t bothering anyone. It isn’t invading anyone’s home and lecturing them about their sexual behavior. It isn’t preventing anyone from working or living or enjoying their lives. It is just saying, very reasonably, very unobtrusively, ‘We are going to conduct ourselves according to Christian moral tradition. If you don’t want to accept that moral tradition, then by all means go somewhere else.'”
I’ve said before that it is really repulsive that Christians try to say that their rights are being taken away when we tell them that it’s wrong to discriminate against LGBTQ+ people. Like Matt Walsh said, all we “Leftists” have ever wanted was just for people to keep their religion to themselves. Honestly, if people could really put this into practice, we’d all be fine. But if being a Christian requires you to tell people what to do with their bodies or with their significant others, then you’ve crossed the line because that no longer counts as minding your own business. If you’re anti-gay, don’t be gay. But don’t tell other people whether or not they can be gay. After all, there are gay Christians who have reconciled the two ideas, and if they’ve done that, then it’s no one’s place, even as a fellow Christian, to tell them what is and isn’t okay within their own religion.
I recall something I saw once on Facebook: “They tell us we can love whoever we want, but we’re not allowed to love Jesus!” No, that’s not what that means. When “loving Jesus” means “forcing people into conversion therapy” or “refusing to acknowledge the rights of LGBTQ+ people” then that’s not okay!
Matt Walsh has, in his post, caught on to the fact that we atheists are upset by the concept of it being a “real Christian school” (because to him, a real Christian school is anti-LGBTQ+). He says, “If you have a problem with this policy, you have a problem with Christian schools per se,” and, “The Left, as we’ve seen, hates the fact of Christian schools. Really hates it.” He is right for once.
You can see, if “Christian” means “discriminating against something that people have no control over” then yes, I do have a problem with it. And this is not to mention my own personal beef I have with Christian schools after my four years attending one, thinking that it wouldn’t be too Christian without requiring students or faculty to sign a confession of faith like Karen Pence’s school does.
But in the two days since I read Walsh’s posts and writing my final draft of this right now, the hashtag #ExposeChristianSchools has exploded over Twitter after Mike Pence tweeted that “The criticism of Christian education in America must stop.” I must say, this is one of those moments when I am extremely proud of Twitter. But I am more ashamed of Christian schools (and they are oh, so much worse than the Christian school I attended) than I have ever been before.
The problem with self-named christian schools is not them believing in christ, but in forcing people (students and employees) to sign documents attesting to their personal beliefs and actions. They are discriminating against people on so many different levels.
Unfortunately, bloggers like Mr. Walsh are allowed to write whatever they want, as long as they are not openly promoting hate speech (I think). Not being American I have no idea which laws apply here, or what those laws actually even state.
Do they “force” people?
Hey, guy, how you doing?
In my mind they force people. Asking questions like have they ever participated in pre-marital sex is way beyond their scope of requirements.
But of course they do not see it that way. They do not want “sinners” working for them. Meanwhile, they probably don’t ask if a potential student or employee is a member of the NRA, or if they have even stolen or lied. Those things are acceptable…
Good points. Ya, there’s too many ways to pigeon hole a human. BTW..I belong to the NRA. I have a 22 rifle passed down from my grandfather. I take it to the gun range every so often.
As with everything, there are good people everywhere, and bad ones. Good peole do not often make the news, bad people do all the time.
You have noticed a lot of things, but you parrot this notion that Christians are trying to tell other people how to live lately. That’s only the case in the extreme–which both sides have. Yes, both sides have ultra-extremist militants who can easily be manipulated into stupidity.
By the way, how ashamed are you of Jewish schools? What I could tell you about the Talmud would curl your hair. Are you ashamed of Muslim schools? Do you understand THEIR position on LGBwhateverlettertheyadd?
I’m quite frankly dismayed at Humanist schools–aka the publicly funded school system for preaching THEIR religion. Sorry, but everyone has a belief system. Some of us describe it the third person. Others just use the first person.
Sadly, people of a certain ilk want to demand not to have to think about anybody but that deity, which is why they get so personally offended at just about anything that doesn’t agree with them. Too much vitamin “I” makes them that way.
Do public schools claim to be humanist? Also what would be humanist faith based claims?
We are well aware of what Islamic schools teach about homosexuality and it is no better, but it’s hardly current events is it? Are wives of high elected offices working for such schools? I can guarantee there would be back lash if she worked for a Muslim school that preached similar values. But you talk about this story as if it represents some sort of extreme, but people who preach the extremes of Christianity have enormous influence on politics right now. If such views were marginalized that would be great. But we have people like Jerry Falwell, Jr meeting with the president and waving his banner.
Lol… that’s a great response. You don’t even know me or what I promote or how I promote it. You are the one who was doing the bashing on the post that CA wrote. Written, reasoned critique is a valid way of challenging ideas however, as well as organizing our own views. It took me a very small part of my day to pick apart your faulty reasoning, I can get more accomplished don’t you worry. Also I’m on a desk chair. What were you sitting on when you criticized CA’s post? Apparently this is relevant to you.
Everyone has a belief system, but I’d much prefer one based on critical thinking and evidence (humanism), than one based on ancient texts. It’s easy to say stuff about those other religions too, but when it comes to Christianity, we have lived it, so it’s more personal.
As believers (and I don’t subscribe to Christianity, either, for other reasons) we’re asked to reason things out–not blindly mentally assent–which is what the church unfortunately, particularly evangelicals have put out there. Paul says the things of YHWH are clearly seen in what has been created. When I look at at something so simple as a leaf, I can’t fathom that there is no design–just some random arrangement of cells, molecules, and processes. And that’s just one leaf–much less an entire human body or the whole ecosystem of what has been created. My reasoning tells me that things around me have design, have constancy. That’s not from my “ancient text” (that, by the way, is written to be just as relevant to people today as people who didn’t have electricity or other modernity). That’s from my own observation and logic.
I see what you’re saying. There are a number of different ways of looking at the environment though. One can certainly say it is amazing and that there are definitely processes going on which have some sort of pattern or ‘order’. But the thing is, there are many things in nature which have patterns which we know weren’t designed (Giant’s Causeway in Ireland comes to mind). If we haven’t seen this designer, it is hard to tell if they designed things or not.
As for the concept of there being a creator, I’m actually open to that, but I don’t think they would be anything like the major God’s of religions that we come up with, nor could we be able to communicate with them. But I don’t think we have seen any definitive proof of there being one though either.
Well, you know, TheCovertAtheist, I came to feel the same way–that the God I saw played out in the church was not the one I saw actually in the Scriptures. Their “God” isn’t there. And see, the thing about the one that reached out to Abraham is that He’s different than any other ones man ever devised. Those were only interested in sexing and vexing mankind, demanding them to sacrifice things in order to maybe get their favor. This one looked at the pitiful state of humanity and said, “I’m doing something about this.”
I’d be the first one to tell you Christianity is pretty bogus. They went off the rails and have been a trainwreck ever since. I don’t take that label, personally, and neither did the first believers. They simply said they were of the Way–the way of life, of hope, of promise.
So thanks for playing along. I appreciate your honesty.
So what do you believe in now then? If you don’t mind me asking. You believe in the God from the Christian Bible but you’re not Christian?
No, not a Christian. I believe in Yah whose autobiography is the Scriptures, aka “Old Testament.” I consider the “New Testament” the Messianic or Apostolic writings.
Here are some differences–and it was a really bumpy road getting here, believe me as I had been in the “church” for decades as Sunday School superintendent, worship leader, and so on.
I don’t celebrate Christmas or Easter.
I keep Sabbath as described in the fourth commandment. (A sun-god worshiping pagan changed that at Nicea, 325AD. I’m not good with that.)
I keep the dietary instructions. It turns out the creatures we’re not to eat all share one aspect: They do not pass toxins out. They store them. They are the waste management system for each of their eco-systems.
I keep the feasts and special days: Passover, the Feast of Unleavened Bread, The Feast of Weeks (co-opted by Christians and called “Pentecost like it was some new thing), Feast of Tabernacles. I love that these all have prophetic meaning both for the time they were given and for the future.
That’s probably enough for starters 🙂 When I couldn’t go on with the flavor of church I was in, I went here and there and everywhere. I even landed in Oprah/Eckardt Tolle New Age Land. But when I discovered the Hebraic Roots of the faith, that was it. Turns out, a whole big bunch of people have been coming out of the church the same way, for the same reasons–to find something authentic that had been missing.
Ahh right, yeah I used to live with a guy who had similar beliefs. It was like a kind of Hebrew roots movement.
Well, I sort of headed that direction at first, but there are some hitches in their git-a-long that made me think “If I wanted this much arguing, I’d have stayed in the church.” smirk
At first, I put Godless Heathen on my FB page (I would have preferred heathern, as some folk pronounce it). I realized that could be taken as a joke (and sort of was), so after I started making noises like an outed atheist, I changed it. I am not sure if anyone looks at that stuff. As far as the VP’s comment, it tells a lot. But, we already knew.
When I first saw a forum post about Karen Pence and that teaching job, my immediate reaction was “There’s nothing surprising here.” So no, I was not outraged. I was not even surprised. I had long since come to understand that conservative Christianity is a society of pious hypocrites.
I doubt that there was much actual outrage on the left about this. There was a lot of commentary, because they like to comment on hypocrisy.
The separation of church and state, and the bizarre notion that freedom of religion somehow gives one the right to legally inflict one’s beliefs on others, is a subject I discussed in my piece https://lionsdan.wordpress.com/2018/08/12/why-the-church-has-no-place-in-politics/
Even when I was religious, I believed very strongly in the separation of church and state, which in my mind has always been synonymous with freedom of religion. Back when I first read about religious arguments against gay marriage, for instance, in my grandmother’s Catholic newspapers, I remember thinking (as like a ten year old): even if that’s the “correct” way of interpreting the Bible, what if somebody else interprets it differently? Don’t they legally have that right? So how are you not infringing on their religious freedoms, and in effect, saying that your religion should officially legally be in charge? Religious rights, like all rights, are only valid to the extent that they do not infringe on the same rights of anyone else.
This is getting so obvious it’s laughable. If Mike Pence was a blue collar worker, high school teacher, electrician or VP of Hillary there wouldn’t be this outrage. But, he’s the vice president of Trump and the left is outraged. The left is in a continuous state of outrage about anything Trump related.
But, if I were to think of sending my kids to a Christian, Jewish, Muslim school and I or my kids didn’t agree with the rules..all the rules, I wouldn’t send them.
Personal opinion, here: If a school is billed as “christian” then they are a school that caters to Christian kids. a ‘church school” , if you will, in the same way that a parochial school caters to Catholic kids. Parochial schools are up front and obvious about it; they pray, they teach about the bible, they are a school affilitiated with the Church.
“Christian” schools seem to be more invasive, more discriminatory and at the same time more inclusive in their sweep and scope. It’s necessary to be a Christian, but under certain very stringent rules, many of which violate personal beliefs and freedoms.
Discriminatory doesn’t even come close.
What you’re saying is like saying, “a medical school only caters to people who want a medical degree.” Are you serious? If people don’t like Christian schools, just don’t send your kids there. Why do they have to come out and make it seem like a bad thing, when God-fearing parents are just trying to do what’s best for their family? Give me a break
Religion is the excuse given today to discriminate against LGBT people, and it wouldn’t surprise me it was used to discriminate against other races in the past. Normally I’m happy for people if their religion makes them happy, but in times like this, I’m like “nah screw religion, we don’t need it on this planet anymore.”
“There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female, for ye are all one in Christ Jesus” Gal. 3:28. Jesus loves everyone. LGBT people are sinning and Jesus wants to deliver them from sin. We are God’s people and satan wants us to destroy us. But God will give you eternal life
OK, so Jesus loves everyone, except he’s not OK with people being LGBT apparently, even though they were probably LGBT from birth? I once believed in what you believe, including that the Bible was flawless and God’s word, but I don’t believe that anymore sorry. Have a nice day.
It is impossible to be LGBT from birth because when you were born God made you innocent. He would not create someone that way because we are the apple of his eye and LGBT is an abomination in his sight. During life, something happened that made the LGBT person turn from God unto this lifestyle. Jesus loves you and wants you to believe in what he said. Just because you can’t see him doesn’t mean it isn’t real. Can you see love? No, but you know it exists because you can feel it. It’s the same with Jesus. You can feel him in everyday that we live. “In him do we live and move and have our being”.
But God created everything, so therefore he created LGBT people. Feelings without any evidence to back them up, are just feelings. There are some things you can’t see but there is evidence to back them up, but Jesus? he must be playing the greatest game of hide and seek ever then.
I know you probably won’t appreciate me saying this, but you’re still young, and one day you may realise that much of what you have been taught isn’t black and white, and isn’t so true after all. But hey, I understand, I was once in your position. But for now, I’d advise you to enjoy your life and not to push your religious beliefs onto others like that – it pushes people further away besides. If Jesus is the way then it should be more apparent.
Jesus, who is God loves you and has a plan for everyone’s life. Satan is trying to deceive you so that you’ll never live to your full potential. But don’t give in, look at the whole world. Do you believe that it was all made by accident? It’s not! For we are all fearfully and wonderfully made. I understand that one reason you may not believe in God is because of crisis in your lives, but that doesn’t mean God exists. That just means that God is testing you to see if you will come to him. So just believe. Try this just once, call Jesus and tell him that you want a sign that he is real. Pray and read he bible and God will reveal himself to you all. God bless
If someone said the same to you except about Allah, would you believe them?
No, the Muslim religion was created by man. Christianity is having a relationship with God himself.
How do you know? How are they different?
All I can say is that Christianity is different than the other religions. I am personally Apostolic Pentecostal. If you would like to understand and learn more about us, you can go to the UPCI website. After seeing these comments last night, I prayed for you all. And I will continue to do so. God bless.
Every religious person believes that their religion is different than other religions, but okay.
You, nor anyone else, has the right to pray for me, or prey on me. Each time you do, you sin against me, but of course you ask forgiveness of your god for doing so. Well, let me save you some worry. There is no god, no sin, and therefore no reason for forgiveness. Believe what you want, but don’t ask anyone else to believe as you do. That is not your right.
I do not sin against anyone for doing what the Bible says. And if there is no sin, then what is murder? Or lying? If there is no God, then who will provide the just punishment for those sins? If there is no reason for forgiveness, then you will not be forgiven for the sins you have committed.
I cannot commit since, since there is no god. You can, because you believe there is a God. I need no forgiveness. You do!
Just because you do t believe in something doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist. For example, if I say that a tree fell in the forest, and it really did fall. But you do t believe it, that doesn’t mean it didn’t fall.
If I see the fallen tree, I believe it. But if you want me to say I believe it because you say it, dear friend, it just isn’t going to happen. Give it up, go tell someone who cares. Pray for them. Maybe they need it.
And, this is America. I have a right to freedom of speech and freedom of religion.
You live in America, I do not, but that doesn’t matter. You still do not have the right to pray for me–i never gave it to you. And as for your right to the religion of your choice, remember, it is not everyone’s choice, so keep yours to yourself.
Did you give me the right to reply to your comment? And I think you forgot to mention the right of freedom of speech to share my religion. And guess what? If I feel so led to, I will also pray for you tonight. God is the final authority and gives me permission to air all my concerns and wishes to Him.
Of course I gave you the right to reply to me, otherwise I would have been like your god and remained forever silent. And no, freedom of speech does not give you the right to lie to specific people once they have told you they want to part of it. Then you become harassing, which cannot do you any good. It makes nobody want to listen to you. Is that what your god wants? I doubt it. Get some class!
Air all “your” concerns to whoever you want, but I am not your concern. I am my own concern. I mean, if you really want to waste your time and energy on trying to convince a being who does not exist to care about someone who does not accept being cared about by a figment of your imagination, go ahead and waste yourself. You are still young, and you have no idea what game you are playing. Someone told you the rules, but they were biased. Well, when you grow up you will find those rules have no power in the real world. Worry about yourself before you start worrying about others.
I know, blow it out my ear. Remember me, when someone blows it out of your head. Or just blows out your head. There is no god, no matter how strongly you think you believe. Time will open your eyes, and heart, for you…
First of all, my God is not silent. Second, when I made reference to “concerns” I was explaining the purpose of prayer. And where is your proof that there is no God? You say it as though it is a fact when in truth, you are making an assumption. And no one told me the rules. I made up in my own mind after reading God’s word that I would serve Him. Just because I am young, doesn’t mean that I’m controlled by anyone. And you only think I’m lying because you don’t believe me, when in reality, you are the one living in lies. You believe the “intelligent” people when they say that no God exists. They are biased. You should try doing your own research and stop taking others words as law. And speaking of class, I am a teenager, you are an adult arguing with a girl over obvious realities.
@letters …
You believe the “intelligent” people when they say that no God exists. They are biased … and you’re not???!?
Yup, I’m trying to save you from wasting your life chasing chimera. As for you being a girl, I had no idea, but it changes nothing. You think I assume there is no god, but I do know. There is no superbeing in charge of this universe. Just think of the logistics involved in being a god, not just of this world, but of every world in existence, and every life in existence. As a rough but convervative guess, there are at least 8 octillion living beings on Earth alone, and probably as many planets in the universe that have life on them. Yet the god of the bible doesn’t even know the world which he created is round. The world of the Old Testament is confined to the topmost part of Africa (Egypt) and the Middle East (the Levant). The New Testament adds on Greece and Rome. No Asia, no Australia, no North or South America, a tiny bit of Europe, no India even. Some all-knowing superbeing. A god of love that can wipe out whole towns full of people with a single thought, or a bellow from a ram’s horn. This is love? Your bible is full of olive people who most christians believe are white, but aren’t, and a couple of what we now call black people, most of whom are slaves, There are no actual white people, or red people, or yellow people. I could continue on for years with things in this world that are not in the bible, but existed at the same time as biblical times. Forget about the rest of the universe, which he too supposedly created. At best he is a petty tyrant, who only knows about 1% of the world, and 0.00000000000000000000000000001% of the universe, if even that.
So you still want to pray for me? You want to have me counted in the same group as you? But you are young yet, so I’ll forgive you.
And, just so you know, I have been an atheist for about 50 years, since before I knew what an atheist even was. And who are the people who influenced me? Christians, every one, people who lied to me, beat me, scared me with tales of an eternity in hell, people who took my money and gave me nothing in return. A god who abandoned me to a physically and sexually abusive father, who said he would look after me and keep me safe. If that is safe, he can keep it. I want no part of it.
Have I not convinced you yet to stop replying to my comments to you? If not, it is because you are not as fully convinced of your god’s existence as you think you are. There is a crack in your armour somewhere, and give me enough time I will find it. Meanwhile, you can take the rest of my life until I die, and just waste your time. It makes no sense to do that. Stay away!
OK you believe in all that, and that’s fine I guess, I don’t want to take that away from you. But many people (including myself), have done the very things you suggested but have yet had no answer, just more doubts and questions.
If you seek after God with a longing heart, you will find Him.
Did you really “long for” him to take over your life, or did you do it because you were told to. Don’t bother answering, I already know the real answer.
No matter how strong you think you are, you are too weak to take responsibility for your own life, your actions, or your thoughts. You let your god do all your thinking for you. He makes all your decisions. Do you really call that life?